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Email: CommentsPrincess, I think your "demands" for having doors opened for opened for you and other such things are normal and, to me, very acceptable. You can overdo it by expecting me to rush around the car to get your door (all the time). In that case, I would seriously start to question your ability to be my counterpart. I do not wish to guide every step or action, some perspective on the Chivalry please! On the paying bit, I don't mind paying for a lady when going out and indeed feel it is part of "the game". I am not "hiring" or "buying" one though. That would be more business then Chivalry then and different rules, harsh and not sympathetic to both sides, would apply. The farming Prince Email: smckinnon@bender.com CommentsDear Princess, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!! It was so funny to read your e-mail message because I had just written this long e-mail tirade to my friend about this very subject. I agree with you 100 percent that we have a very confused generation of people. Men don't know what to do and neither do women. We have the worst of both worlds, I think, because women do not actually have equal rights (witness unequal pay, job discrimination, etc) and we are not taught to take pleasure and pride in being women. We aren't encouraged to appreciate our power AND our femininity. THIS MUST CHANGE! I hesitate to completely turn my back on the concept of feminism however. Feminism in its truest sense is all about appreciating women and getting more for us (money, rights, power and influence) because we deserve it. Somewhere along the way, this also turned into rejecting more traditional forms of femininity. I think this was some kind of backlash against the earlier oppression women experienced when femininity was associated with weakness and inferiority. Now, feminism as a movement often seems to be out of touch with the average woman's worldview and this issue about femininity and feminism seems to be a major point of division. There are feminists who have discussed this issue at length, especially Naomi Wolf whose take on beauty, femininity and feminism is fascinating. Her books "The Beauty Myth" and "Fight Fire with Fire" are very interesting reads about how we need to take back femininity and beauty ON OUR OWN TERMS. Ok, so my point here was that I completely agree with what you wrote and I support chivalry AND I consider myself a feminist. I think you're a feminist too (in my definition of the word) because your e-mail shows that you want women to get the respect they deserve and you demand it for yourself. I think we need to redefine what feminism means to us and create a new definition that ALL women can get behind. If we can support other women and women's power while appreciating our femininity, sensuality and beauty then we really will be starting a revolution like Edie suggests. Let's start here with salseras everywhere who read this site! Instead of attacking feminists and rejecting that whole movement which actually has improved life for women in a lot of ways, let's just create our own movement, even if this is only in our own minds, which joins the power of feminism with sex appeal, femininity and chivalry. This is what being a woman means to me...BEING ALL OF THESE THINGS AT ONCE: powerful, intelligent, sexy and feminine! That is what is so great about being a woman. I guess my point is to redefine instead of write off feminism because I think that the concept of a movement supporting women is too valuable to lose. Just as power and femininity do not have to be mutually exclusive, neither do feminism and chivalry!! Take care girl!! Love, A Feminist Princess Email: spinthegrl@aol.com CommentsDear Princess, I was raised the old fasioned way, to open doors for ladies, to walk on the curb side to protect them from splashes, to always protect and honor them and look out for them. The feminism came along and women turned into male-wannabes. They focused on everything negative about relations and buried all the good. 20 years of whining and bitching about men, dressing like men, putting radical feminist politics in relationships and then idiotically demanding to be treated "like ladies" pissed off most men, of all ages. They brought the animosity on themselves. I still treat ladies like ladies, but there are very few out there any more. I treat feminists like men, becuase that is what they chose to be. It's sad really, becuase most men in our hearts and sould want to please and respect and adore our women, but intead of appreciating that feminism has focused on destroying the basic man-woman paradigm, and turning it into some kind of adversarial power struggle. What an ugly thing! Here in Denver you can barely tell the women from the men they dress so blandly and are so aggressive and arrogant. I so cherish my trips to warmer, more spanish climates, where women still act like women and bring out the man in me that I want to be. You want a gracious, chivalrous man? Act like a gracious, feminine woman. It's like dancing, it takes two to do it properly. Tim Galus, Denver, Email: CommentsDear women (and men), give me a break. I cannot believe I am reading articles knocking feminism. If it were not for feminism, you would not vote, own property, have credit card, choose your own husband, have control over your own sexuality, run for congress, play sports professionally, go to college...am I making my points clear? If not, that's not my problem, just please educate yourself about what feminism was, and is, all about. Believe me, the women (and men) who fought for these rights for you and I had wonderful intentions, and I dare say that women leading on the dance floor was last on their list, so good grief ladies (and Edie), chill out. I will admit, I met an elderly gentleman a few weeks ago who respectfully took off his hat when he met me and shook my hand, and found that endearing, but I don't blame feminism for our generation of men not doing that anymore, but I do blame them for my engineering degree! Sincerely, Salsera Feminista Email: alhcdf@mizzou.edu CommentsPrincess, I admire the fact that you stuck to your guns and didn't cow tow to a man's every waking need and desire. However, you faulted feminism in the beginning of your letter and that appauls me. You are a free thinker and have the rights and privileges to say no to a man (and earn more money then him according to you) BECAUSE of feminism. And the fact that you spit in the very face of the movement which has given you and others so much, saddens me. I think that you need to realize that independence is on an individual basis and stop blaming all the problems in your life on feminism. I am, as you put it, ALL WOMAN, and I can demonstrate that and be proud of it only because my sisters have helped me to do so through feminism. Email: CommentsIt's women like this, wanting unequal 'pampering' (men paying for all, opening all doors etc.. ) who continue to promote the 'dark ages' of sexism. Chivalrous men ... the term itself is rooted in a time of inequality. A time when the knights would run off to do battle killing infidels in the Holyland while leaving his wife locked up in a chastity belt. A time when an adulterous Knight was acceptable, when an adulterous women got flogged or stoned. The Chivarly you mention is just a fantacy of what in truth was the dark ages of oppression, were few but the nobility had any say in life. Where the nobles had the RIGHT to sleep with any woman before she wed his subjects. Perhaps you did not really think about that? Is that what you want? You CAN NOT have the BEST of all - you can NOT have knights in shiny armour without serfs which slaved away so that knight could live well in his manor. Nor can you expect a man to pay your way without being considered indebted. Everyone should treat others with respect, but to drop a good guy because you could not split bills - well that just speaks of a woman who wants to be owned (yes - remember women were considered in other places and times as PROPERTY of men.) Email: sarah@hotmail.com CommentsI have to say that i absolutly agree with you Princess of chattingham Email: CommentsMilady, So much water has gone under the bridge with Feminist ideology having settled and become law in these parts. This has men giving way all the time over the last 3 decades thanks to being accused of sexism, harrasment discrimination you name it! Things have changed so drastically that presently neither men nor women know exaclty where they stand. The roles and the boundaries no longer exist. When it comes to "courting and love" a man does not actually know how far he can safely go when "courting" a lady. He is bound and tied by so many laws and rightfully fearful of the full weight of them, that he dare not put a foot wrong. So if he does not confirm that her answer is "yes", he may endanger his freedom. So his manly ways have been neutralized and only those who are bold or plain ignorant will stray those boundaries. How many false allegations of "rape" have there been? Of course I condemn genuine rape, but there are a number of unscrupulous women who want to get their pound of flesh if they can from a sincere man. Consider if you will the case of TV presenter John Leslie, a man possessing forward qualities for sure: the manliness you mention and probably for being this way paid the price of being accused of the rapes of dozens of women over 10 years ago -which they did not report at the time!! No wonder the case was dismissed and should never have gone to court! A popular and promiscuous man with the ladies for sure, but is that wrong? But these jackals knew the law was on their side and they wanted to drag him to the ground and through the dirt like a wilderbeast by bunch of hyenas. That is an example of the dangers that men can encounter if they are not "correct etc" We men would also like to pay for the bill when we go out to "dine" but less and less of us can. The mainstream of jobs are now increasingly held by women. Of course there are more fish in the pond for you, but there are less. Meanwhile men continued to do the most dangerous jobs, most menial and and poorly paid. Of course there are still an elite of Company executives and Directors who are men, but this is a minority compared to the mainstream. So men have to settle for what is left wether it is jobs,careers, housework. We don't complain, but Hey! let's set the record straight for once! The trend that has settled regarding women in jobs, stems from prior laws dating back 20 years: "Encouraging women and minorities into jobs". And this has not stopped: ever since you can perceive how the job market has changed. Men employers? We prefer to hire females right? And lady bosses? They hire men right? Wrong. Female bosses also tend to hire females Is it something to do with sisterhood? And that is where the imbalance exacerbates. So you may also conclude that as a nation we are not exactly an example of social harmony to others -presumably more backward countries, who look us and wonder. So our social make-up is a debacle with almost 1 in 2 marriages ending in divorce. That means uprooting the family and the childs upbringing and having many independent men and women, mothers or one parent families: the only family which is truly encouraged. Would that be why 70% of divorces are initiated by women? Aside from keeping the children they tend to inherit more more than a fair share of assets and as if that was not enough, they suffer with the loss of their much loved children to the mother. They may see their children at the whim of the mother, but may be restricted further. Yet he still haa to maintain them regardless. No Princess I sure miss the world you talk about and I fear the English Rose and the gentleman has been consigned to past times. Beneath the surface there is much wrong with our society and that's why "real men" have dissapeared. We have been tied up in knots by the feminists laws where the boundaries between sex and rape are so blurred that it does kill off romance and normal behaviour between men and women If a man is to be prudent and cautious he may be seen as a wimp. But he's only trying to ascertain the honorable intentions of the lady to see he is not being led into a trap. However despite many blows I'm sure I would open the door for you Princess!! The Disinherited Knight For a true vision of actuality visit Angry Harry's site. Email: plane_down@hotmail.com CommentsPathetic. If you want a man who opens doors and pays for dinner, then find one. They're still out there. You're really talking about personal preference, not feminism. Nothing you've said has anything to do with the vision that launched the feminist movement. I'm dating the most considerate man I've ever dated... because he's respectful, not because he's anti-feminist (which he is not). Isn't it ridiculous to base an argument on the assumption that consideration and anti-feminism are correlated? My choice to back up the feminist movement isn't so I can dress like a boy. I concider myself to be very feminine, but I can chang my own oil and I appreciate the fact that I can now be taken seriously in the field of science I have chosen to pursue. Email: CommentsI agree with the girl's man...as women (besides opening the door)we can support ourselves in a relationship or not...if she ask him to a outing or date she should be prepared to foot the bill. Other than that he should always treat anybody(whether female or male)with respect(like holding doors for people) Email: Julie 1Angel@Aol.com CommentsIam 41 year old and hvave never been courted the old fashion way . Ithink woman should be courted with flowers respcect for now on i want to be treated like a princess. Ithink if a relationship develops i think once in awhile a man should be treated like prince buy him dinner buy him flowes. Email: BelPrtrsh@aol.com CommentsWho is to say that a man is should be expected to pay the bill at dinner. Does it say that somewhere in the Bible? Does it say that somewhere in the old traditions of a man's role???? Hhmm..people who believe that it is a mans role to pay the bill at dinner and open up the door for the woman, probably also believe that it is a man's role to take the woman (his object whom he treats like a child opening doors for and feeding them...a child or a pet) and does what he chooses with her, since after all she owes him something now that he's been so "chivalrous". Email: ladybug@happyhippie.com CommentsOh Dear! Why can't people just be people? Why are we stuffed into roles that are male and female. It's fine to have a door opened for you... if you'll open the next door in return. It's fine to have meal paid for you... if you'll pay for the next one. Life is about equality and traditional or "old fashioned" lifestyles are a choice within the institution of feminist theory. It's okay to be traditional. If to you, getting respect from someone means that they open the door for you to walk through... well, that's fine. However, when you ask why you shouldn't expect a man to open a door for you... well... you shouldn't expect it because you've got two strong arms of your own. In some cultures women are expected to walk behind men because they are inferior and their lives are ultimately less valuable. They are not to participate in male conversation and are not allowed to walk with or before men. Due to this, the men open the doors for women because the women are incapable of doing so culturally. We are so lucky, in our culture, to have the opportunity to have our vioces heard and our actions validated. That is why you open your own doors. |
